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47 Responses

  1. Terry Bouricius, on May 13, 2010 at 2:09 pm said:

    I recently came across a 1972 article in the journal “Public Choice” that proposed sortition for legislatures, and thought others might like to read it.

    The article is in issue 12 titled:
    REPRESENTATIVE DEMOCRACY VIA RANDOM SELECTION by
    Dennis C. Mueller, Robert D. Tollison,
    and Thomas D. Willett

    I was able to access the article online for free by registering on SpringerLink here:
    https://www.springer.com/generic/registration/login?SGWID=4-40107-28-653403-SERVICE_GROUP_REGISTRATION

    Like

  2. Yoram Gat, on May 17, 2010 at 4:32 am said:

    Thank you, Terry, this is very interesting. This short paper touches on many of the important and interesting points associated with sortition. It might be the first modern proposal of an allotted governing body. It is directly influenced by Dahl’s After the Revolution?, and cites no other modern precedents. (Dahl proposes advisory bodies.)

    BTW, I have found a copy on Google Books, p. 193.

    Like

  3. paul cockshott, on February 18, 2011 at 11:22 pm said:

    What about CLR James, Any Cook can Govern?

    Like

  4. Yoram Gat, on February 19, 2011 at 12:25 am said:

    > What about CLR James, Any Cook can Govern?

    This is just a list of books, but see here.

    Like

  5. Yoram Gat, on February 19, 2011 at 12:26 am said:

    By the way, it may make sense to have a “start here” page – I think “Any Cook Can Govern” would certainly fit there.

    Like

  6. Yoram Gat, on February 19, 2011 at 12:38 am said:

    Another by the way – according to Wikiquote, “Any Cook can Govern” might be a paraphrase on Lenin’s “We know that an unskilled labourer or a cook cannot immediately get on with the job of state administration.”

    Like

  8. David Schecter, on December 1, 2011 at 10:49 pm said:

    Here are two more books (well worth reading, I think) proposing an allotted chamber as a complement to (not a replacement for) an elected legislature:

    “Deliberative Democracy in America: a Proposal for a Popular Branch of Government,” Ethan Leib, Pennsylvania State University Press, 2004

    “Saving Democracy: a Plan for Real Representation in America,” Kevin O’Leary, Stanford University Press, 2006

    Like

  9. Yoram Gat, on December 2, 2011 at 6:29 am said:

    I have read Leib’s book. I think his implementing his proposal – like similar proposals from others – would essentially leave the power balance unchanged and, being a meaningless, reform would be worse than doing nothing. What are the details of O’Leary’s proposal in terms of the design parameters that determine the scope and independence of the allotted body?

    Like

  10. David Schecter, on December 2, 2011 at 4:42 pm said:

    Being new to the study of sortition, I haven’t made my mind up yet about whether adding an allotted chamber to an elected legislature is worse than doing nothing, or a useful step in the right direction.

    Thanks for pointing me to your piece about design parameters – I think that’s really useful. I’ll answer about O’Leary’s proposal in the next few days.

    Like

  11. Yoram Gat, on December 2, 2011 at 6:56 pm said:

    David,

    I think adding an allotted chamber to an elected legislature could be a useful step – if it is a body that is powerful enough to be more than a sham.

    Leib’s proposal – a “chamber” whose tenure is a few days, that answers pre-made questions by selecting from pre-made answers by relying on information and arguments presented by pre-selected “experts” – is just political theater, not a powerful political entity.

    Like

  12. badijet@gmail.com, on March 14, 2013 at 3:26 pm said:

    You should probably include Plato’s “The Laws” here too. It proposes that sortition be combined with public servants chosen by other kinds of selection, such as appointment and election.

    Like

  13. Yoram Gat, on March 15, 2013 at 6:31 am said:

    Thanks for the comment. Could you provide a more specific citation from “The Laws”? I am aware only of a very brief mention of sortition by Plato in Republic:

    Democracy arises after the poor are victorious over their adversaries, some of whom they kill and others of whom they exile, then they share out equally with the rest of the population political offices and burdens; and in this regime public offices are usually allocated by lot.

    I would be interested to see what else he had to say.

    Like

  14. badiblogger, on March 17, 2013 at 3:14 am said:

    My search engine turns up some thirty six mentions of “lots,” meaning sortition, usually, in Plato’s Laws. It is this book that got me interested in this idea as a practical possibility. Plato was aware of the broad use of sortition in Athens and Sparta, to name just two. Although he was against democracy because of what it did to his teacher Socrates, he seems, in this, his last work, to have concluded that some combination of election and sortition would balance out the disadvantages of democracy and oligarchy.

    Here are two mentions, from book II of the Laws.

    Ath. “There is a seventh kind of rule which is awarded by lot, and is dear to the Gods and a token of good fortune: he on whom the lot falls is a ruler, and he who fails in obtaining the lot goes away and is the subject; and this we affirm to be quite just.” (Plato, Laws, Book II)

    Ath. “A God, who watched over Sparta, seeing into the future, gave you two families of kings instead of one; and thus brought you more within the limits of moderation. In the next place, some human wisdom mingled with divine power, observing that the constitution of your government was still feverish and excited, tempered your inborn strength and pride of birth with the moderation which comes of age, making the power of your twenty-eight elders equal with that of the kings in the most important matters. But your third saviour, perceiving that your government was still swelling and foaming, and desirous to impose a curb upon it, instituted the Ephors, whose power he made to resemble that of magistrates elected by lot; and by this arrangement the kingly office, being compounded of the right elements and duly moderated, was preserved, and was the means of preserving all the rest.”
    (Plato, Laws, Book II)

    There is also some Biblical support for sortition, especially in Proverbs 16:33,

    “The lot is cast into the lap, But its every decision is from Yahweh.” (World English Bible)

    Like

  15. keithsutherland, on March 17, 2013 at 6:30 am said:

    “Some combination of election and sortition would balance out the disadvantages of democracy and oligarchy.”

    That was also Aristotle’s opinion, and should temper the view that it was the hostility of “the philosophers” to democracy that cast it in such a poor light for 2,000 + years. Plato and Aristotle would appear to be equally committed to mixed government as the most workable solution in practice. Of course neither, quite sensibly, believed in government by sortition alone.

    The repeated references to the gods should also moderate any outright rejection of the Fustel de Coulanges view on the origin of sortition.

    Like

  16. Yoram Gat, on March 22, 2013 at 4:49 pm said:

    Thanks, badiblogger – finally got around to looking this up. Yes – interesting comments. I added Laws to the list as you suggest, and I’ll make a post of one of the relevant passages.

    Like

  17. Plato: The equlity of the lot | Equality by lot, on March 22, 2013 at 5:04 pm said:

    […] draws attention in a comment on the Literature page to the fact that Plato’s Laws discusses […]

    Like

  18. Plato: The equality of the lot | Equality by lot, on March 23, 2013 at 10:36 am said:

    […] draws attention in a comment on the Literature page to the fact that Plato’s Laws discusses […]

    Like

  20. Yoram Gat, on August 31, 2013 at 4:51 pm said:

    Hi Anthony – your book is already on the list, naturally.

    Like

  22. sortitionpetition, on December 6, 2014 at 11:45 pm said:

    True Democracy: Empowering Everyday Americans through the Legislative Lottery (2013) might apply. It is on Amazon. http://www.amazon.com/True-Democracy-Empowering-Americans-Legislative/dp/1491033711/ref=sr_1_8?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1417909417&sr=1-8&keywords=sortition

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  23. davidschecter, on December 7, 2014 at 3:07 am said:

    Is Machiavellian Democracy by John McCormick on the list? Cambridge University Press, 2011. Well worth reading.

    http://www.cambridge.org/us/academic/subjects/politics-international-relations/political-theory/machiavellian-democracy

    Like

  24. Yoram Gat, on December 10, 2014 at 5:13 am said:

    Thanks – added Miller’s “True Democracy” to the list.

    Liked by 1 person

  25. Yoram Gat, on December 10, 2014 at 5:22 am said:

    Added Machiavellian Democracy by John McCormick as well. Thanks!

    Like

  26. Simon Threlkeld, on February 7, 2016 at 11:36 pm said:

    Aristotle’s Constitution of the Athens, and the similarly called work of the “Old Oligarch” are not on the list. Should they be? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_the_Athenians

    Like

  27. Yoram Gat, on February 8, 2016 at 6:48 pm said:

    Thanks, Simon. Added.

    Like

  28. Common Lot Sortitionist, on April 23, 2018 at 4:03 pm said:

    I have self-published the following eight items. Further description is available at https://amazon.com/author/grantd

    * The Fight for Random – magical realist screenplay
    * Random Takes Off – political action drama screenplay
    * Democracy at Random – road trip screenplay
    * Random Takes Baltimore – municipal version of “Takes Off” screenplay
    * Next Step for Democracy – a short comedic educational stage play
    * Why Elections Are the Problem and How to Make Democracy Real — 8,000 word essay
    * On the Citizen House: A Disquisitional Fiction – novella
    * The Common Lot: A Novel – as stated

    Like

  30. Yoram Gat, on September 18, 2018 at 4:34 am said:

    Thanks, Nicholas! Yes – although both of those books have been discussed on the blog, the books page has not been updated to include them. I’ll do that now.

    Liked by 1 person

  33. npruet, on September 26, 2018 at 1:45 am said:

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/44517.Democracy_and_Its_Critics?ac=1&from_search=true. Sorry to write so many, I hope this is helpful. Mostly using the wikipedia page on sortition for knowing these.

    Like

  34. Yoram Gat, on September 26, 2018 at 4:26 pm said:

    Thanks, Nicholas. I added Peter Stone’s reader to the list. Callenbach and Phillips is already on the list. Dahl’s book touches on sortition only very briefly if I am not mistaken.

    Liked by 1 person

  35. npruet, on September 27, 2018 at 5:02 am said:

    Sorry, I will check the list more thoroughly in the future. I haven’t read the Dahl myself, whatever you think is best. :)

    Like

  36. Anonymous, on October 12, 2021 at 3:58 am said:

    Legislature by Lot – (edited by) John Gastil & Erik Olin Wright.
    https://www.versobooks.com/books/2969-legislature-by-lot

    Liked by 1 person

  37. Yoram Gat, on October 12, 2021 at 6:38 pm said:

    Yes – it seems we haven’t updated the book list in about 3 years. I hope to get to that soon. Other than Gastil & Wright, there is of course Landemore. Some other books that were discussed on this blog can be found under the books category. Anything else?

    Like

  38. Yoram Gat, on October 13, 2021 at 6:23 am said:

    Ok – I updated the list with some recent books. Please let me know if I missed anything that should be listed.

    Like

  39. keithsutherland, on October 13, 2021 at 4:13 pm said:

    Sortition and Democracy: History, Tools, Theories, by Liliane Lopez-Rabatel and Yves Sintomer (2020) http://books.imprint.co.uk/book/?gcoi=71157100308680

    Democracy in Crisis: Lessons from Ancient Athens, by Jeff Miller (2022 [January]) http://books.imprint.co.uk/book/?gcoi=71157100331290

    Like

  41. anthonybarnett, on October 20, 2021 at 8:25 am said:

    Keith, have you seen Hélèn Landemore, Open Democracy ? cheers Anthony

    >

    Like

  42. keithsutherland, on October 20, 2021 at 11:38 am said:

    Hi Anthony, good to hear from you. I haven’t read Helene’s new book, but Yoram wrote a multi-part review of it on this blog.

    Like

  43. anthonybarnett, on October 20, 2021 at 11:41 am said:

    great, where is that?!

    >

    Like

  44. keithsutherland, on October 20, 2021 at 11:50 am said:

    Type “open democracy” in the search box and you’ll get all thirteen parts. PS Did Helene acknowledge that she stole the name from you? https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/

    Like

  45. Democratic Wisdom from the 1930s | Hugh Pope, on June 16, 2022 at 8:17 am said:

    […] the subject for posthumous publication. For sure, Pour le Tirage au Sort was WAY ahead of its time. The next books to argue for sortition came decades later. The earliest comprehensive work actually only appeared in 2013 (Against Elections by David van […]

    Like

  46. npruet, on May 10, 2023 at 3:43 pm said:

    Not sure of the publication date, but it looks interesting. http://books.imprint.co.uk/book/?gcoi=71157100410200

    Like

  47. keithsutherland, on May 10, 2023 at 4:23 pm said:

    We published the book just over a month ago and are looking for a reviewer on EBL. Do I hear a volunteer?

    Liked by 1 person

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